Brit Am, Jewish Objections, DNA, and Daniel

"Brit-Am Now"-659
Content:
1. Brit-Am Reply to "Jewish" Objections.
2. Use of Brit-Am Articles
3. The Red-Haired Man
4. DNA Findings: The USA is Different?
5. More Chapters Uploaded to Daniel

1. Brit-Am Reply to "Jewish" Objections.

Note: This is the Internet. A person can present him- or herself however they like and the opposite side assumes that they are who they say they are. We do the same but cannot be certain. The letter below was received by us. We do not know who sent it or what the circumstances described in it really were or what was really said.

The letter in fact does not sound typically "Jewish" but rather what somebody else may imagine a "Jew" to say.

Nevertheless, we are assuming that the letter is genuine and that the statements quoted are correct. Even if such is not the case the letter is still worth replying to.

Letter quoted in full then replied to point by point:

From "H"
Perhaps I am ethnocentric,although I dont believe I am---but it disturbs me to think that you believe that northern Europeans are of Israelite origin. By the way I am Jewish (from the tribe of Levi). I found out about Brit-Am in a chatroom for Christians and was basically told online that most Christians are probably more related to the Israelites than are the Jews. Your name was mentioned--so I google searched you and here I am--IN SHOCK!! Am I to assume that Joseph's descendants are the fair-haired, fair-skinned blondes of northern Europe and Britain? Where have they been for these thousands of years? Have they had complete and pure unadulterated amnesia about their supposed Israelite past? Thousands of years of Jewish persecution, inquisitions, pogroms and ultimately the holocaust and they never were a part of us--and now that WE have our OWN land back, they are happy to join up with us again.

Those in the chatroom who told me about you were so pleased that you are an orthodox Jew from Israel who validates their authenticity as the true Israel (Jesus believers). The church always loved to describe itself as the new Israel and Rome as the new Jerusalem. The Mormons think of themselves as Israel and Utah as the new Jerusalem. In the chatroom,,they even said that Hebrew is not a Jewish language-since the Jews are not the only descendants of Israel.

My belief is that the northern kingdom joined with the southern kingdom of Judah and we all came to be called Jews. Some may have wandered to places such as present-day India and Ethiopia-but not to northern Europe and Britain. Sorry-(not to sound prejudiced-and Im not) but how can you believe that those goyishe looking punims are Israelites? Yes, Joseph was very goodlooking-but did that mean he looked like a stereotypical non-Jew?

With so many Jews today assimilating and intermarrying --views like yours can possibly make these Jews feel like they really are with their long lost brethren and not really intermarrying with "non-Jews". Oh well, perhaps Moshiach really is coming--I was once told that before moshiach comes, most of the world will claim Jewish origins. Oh by the way-have you heard of the black and hispanic group in America who believe that they are the real 12 tribes of Israel? They say that the Jews of today are imposters and that in Devarim it says that the Israelites will be sent away in ships. They interpret that to mean the slave trade of the 1600's and the ships were bringing them to America. Therefore, they are the true Israelites including the tribe of Judah-not the Jews (aka us).

Where were all of these "true Israelites" while we were being tossed into the ovens and why didnt someone tell the Germans, the Poles, the Spanish etc etc that we are not the only Jews/Israelites? If we are even Jews at all.

Brit-Am ["BA"] Reply:
"H" wrote:
"Perhaps I am ethnocentric,although I dont believe I am---but it disturbs me to think that you believe that northern Europeans are of Israelite origin. By the way I am Jewish (from the tribe of Levi). I found out about Brit-Am in a chatroom for Christians"

BA: If you are Jewish, what were you doing there?

"and was basically told online that most Christians are probably more related to the Israelites than are the Jews."

BA: I am relating to what you say as you say it and assuming it is accurate. Anyone who said such a thing did not receive it from us (just the opposite) and is probably anti-Semitic.

"Your name was mentioned--"

BA: That does not mean that we should be associated with such views. Who mentioned our name? In what context?

"so I google searched you and here I am--IN SHOCK!! Am I to assume that Joseph's descendants are the fair-haired, fair-skinned blondes of northern Europe and Britain?"

BA: They are not all so fair but many of them are. Many Jews are also fair. Lightness of skin is an "autosomal" feature derived from a combination of environment in which genetical predisposition can be important. See: THE PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY OF THE HEBREW PEOPLES

"Where have they been for these thousands of years? Have they had complete and pure unadulterated amnesia about their supposed Israelite past? Thousands of years of Jewish persecution, inquisitions, pogroms and ultimately the holocaust and they never were a part of us--and now that WE have our OWN land back, they are happy to join up with us again."

BA: Please read what we see on our web-site and elsewhere. We do not say that ALL Europeans are Israelites but only a portion of them. This portion that we are speaking of has been relatively speaking Historically the LEAST anti-Semitic and at times quite pro-Jewish. This whole issue is quite complicated but for an attempt to deal with it see the Prologue to our book "The Tribes"
see the headings:
What Happened To the Land of Israel?
Zionism Being Israel's Restoration Was Also A British Movement!
The Attitude of the Peoples to the Holocaust

"Those in the chatroom who told me about you were so pleased that you are an orthodox Jew from Israel who validates their authenticity as the true Israel"

BA: Brit-Am validates the authenticity of some of them (or a good portion, after all I do not know who they are, or what type of chatroom it was nor do I really care. The type of people you communicate with is your business) and we say that they along with the Jews are part of Israel. In effect precisely because of the situation you are describing we expend a lot of energy in emphasizing that the Jews are Judah and must be respected as such. See our articles:
JUDAH, THE JEWS, AND JOSEPH

THE JEWS ARE JUDAH. Judah and the Question of the Ten Tribes of Israel

Steven M. Collins: WHY THE JEWS ARE "JUDAH"

In addition to these articles the matter is pursued and emphasized in our Biblical Commentaries, in our Brit-Am Now postings and throughout our works at every opportunity.

"(Jesus believers)."

BA: Brit-Am says that physically they are descended from Israelites but we do not relate to their religious beliefs while you evidently do.

"The church always loved to describe itself as the new Israel and Rome as the new Jerusalem. The Mormons think of themselves as Israel and Utah as the new Jerusalem. In the chatroom, they even said that Hebrew is not a Jewish language-since the Jews are not the only descendants of Israel." [Hebrew is the language of all 12 tribes originally, although Judah alone has preserved it - DBA]

BA: Some people do say things like that BUT NOT Brit-Am followers. We do not know what they said or who said it or what context it was being said in but we do not believe that the people saying these things were Brit-Am followers though Brit-Am followers may have been present and may have said something. For all we know, you yourself may well not be quoting with sufficient accuracy what really was said.

"My belief is that the northern kingdom joined with the southern kingdom of Judah and we all came to be called Jews."

BA: This is only partially correct. Most of the Northern Tribes were exiled and lost.
A small minority did remain with Judah or re-attach themselves later and become assimilated amongst Judah. See our answer to the question:
"Brit-Am Now"-650
item #2. "SLIGHTLY CONFUSED": What is the Difference Between "Israel" and
the "Jews"?

See also the opinion of Nachmanides (Ramban) on this matter.

"Some may have wandered to places such as present-day India and Ethiopia-but not to northern Europe and Britain."

BA: You are making assertions. We make statements of fact based on Biblical and historical evidence. If you wish to contest our beliefs please relate to OUR evidence. e.g. see our List of Biblical Proofs


Go to the Table of Contents of the Brit-Am Replies to Queries

Your attitude in a way could in fact be considered somewhat insulting but I assume you had a traumatic experience in that Christian Chat Room and may be distraught because of it. We sometimes also get upset on occasion when encountering such phenomena. There is however such a thing as over-reaction and forgetting the overall perspective.

"Sorry-(not to sound prejudiced-and Im not) but how can you believe that those goyishe looking punims [faces] are Israelites? Yes, Joseph was very goodlooking-but did that mean he looked like a stereotypical non-Jew?"

BA: I think you are mistaken and yourself rely on stereotypes on both sides that actually are only applicable to a minority. Even if your stereotyped images were
correct (and they are not, open your eyes and look around you) it would not mean much. [Not that it matters much BUT After writing this I attended a lesson in the
local Synagogue followed by the evening prayer. The Synagogue is in Jerusalem and most of the 40 or so present were "Old-timers" of European or North American European Jewish origin. I looked around me and did not see anyone there who could be said to look characteristically Jewish as distinct from mainstream "Anglo-Saxon". In fact amongst a group of "Anglo-Saxons" one would probably find more people with typically "Jewish" features than I did.]

"With so many Jews today assimilating and intermarrying --views like yours can possibly make these Jews feel like they really are with their long lost brethren and not really intermarrying with "non-Jews"."

BA: Anything is possible. Our record however in such matters is quite good. You should check things out before making assumptions.

"Oh well, perhaps Moshiach really is coming--I was once told that before moshiach comes, most of the world will claim Jewish origins. Oh by the way-have you heard of the black and hispanic group in America who believe that they are the real 12 tribes of Israel? They say that the Jews of today are imposters and that in Devarim it says that the Israelites will be sent away in ships. They interpret that to mean the slave trade of the 1600's and the ships were bringing them to America. Therefore, they are
the true Israelites including the tribe of Judah-not the Jews (aka us)."

BA: Hitler was allegedly a vegetarian. Should we therefore associate vegetarians with such a person?

"Where were all of these "true Israelites" while we were being tossed into the ovens and why didnt someone tell the Germans, the Poles, the Spanish etc etc"

BA: Brit-Am NEVER said that these people (Germans, the Poles, the Spanish etc) were Israelites. We do however say that a minority of Israelites and Jews may have intermixed with them and given rise to those among them who converted to Judaism or moved to "Israelite"-dominated nations like the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. We trace the Lost Ten Tribes primarily to Western Europe.

"that we are not the only Jews/Israelites? If we are even Jews at all."

BA: Concerning this matter and the attitude towards the returning Israelites
see: The Brit-Am Commentary to Isaiah

ISAIAH (49;21) DESCRIBES HOW THE JEWISH PEOPLE UPON SEEING MASSES OF LOST
ISRAELITES RETURNING TO THE HOLY LAND WILL HAVE A SERIOUS QUESTION:

"THEN SHALT THOU SAY IN THY HEART, WHO HATH BEGOTTEN ME THESE, SEEING
I HAVE LOST MY CHILDREN, AND AM DESOLATE, A CAPTIVE, AND REMOVING TO AND
FRO? AND WHO HATH BROUGHT UP THESE? BEHOLD, I WAS LEFT ALONE; THESE WHERE
HAD THEY BEEN?" (ISAIAH 49;21)

For more on this matter see our commentary to this verse:
http://britam.org/isaiah/chap-forty-nine.html

[Ezekiel 11:15 reveals this initially hostile reaction to the "Lost Ten Tribes" and I'm also reminded of the Parable of the Prodigal Son - DBA

Ezek. 11:15 - Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.]

2. Use of Brit-Am Articles
In general Brit-Am is happy for other sites, magazines etc to use
Brit-Am articles as long as they ask us beforehand, acknowledge Brit-Am
as the source, and include a link to the Brit-Am site.

3. The Red-Haired Man
We used the parable of the Red-Haired man several times but cannot find it now and new people have joined and we need to refer to it so here it is again. "The Red-Haired Man" is similar to the principle mentioned in
"Brit-Am Now"-574
item #Statistical Analogy
http://britam.org/now/574Now.html
This says that a combination of many relatively common features when found in one subject almost certainly will not be found elsewhere and if found elsewhere will mean that the subject (or part of the subject) has moved from one place to another.
This is the principle behind DNA testing through which criminals are found guilty of crimes and others gain inheritance and paternal recognition, etc.

"The Red-Haired Man" had red hair was named John Smith had a wife named Sarah, two children named Bill and Anne. He was five feet six, wore glasses for short-sight, and stuttered. Jack was told by his employer that a "Red-Haired Man" and his family
according to the above description would meet him in the main square of the city.

Jack did not go to the meeting. When his employer asked "Why"? Jack replied that the description was not precise enough: Many people have red hair; John Smith is a common name; a lot of women are named "Sarah"; quite a few boys are called "Bill" and many girls reply to the appellation "Anne". Five feet six is the height of a good portion of the male population; The city has many squares and a lot of people stand around in them.

The employer was justifiably irritated.

We too have an obligation to "Our Employer" to clarify where the Lost Tribes of Israelites are today. We were given signs of identification more than a hundred of which are presented on the Brit-Am Web Site:
Proof of the Identity of the Lost Tribes

"DID YOU KNOW THAT....." According to the Bible ten out of the twelve tribes of Israel split away (1-Kings 12:19), formed their own kingdom of "Israel" (2-Kings 12:20) and were exiled by the Assyrians (2-Kings 17:18). They forget their identity (Hosea 1:9 7:8 Isaiah 49:21) and became the Lost Ten Tribes. In the future they will re-unite with the Jews (Ezekiel 37, Isaiah 11:13 Jeremiah 3:18) of "Judah", but until then they have a role of their own to fulfill. They were destined to be situated at the continental extremities of the earth such as North America, the British Isles,
Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa (Deuteronomy 33:13 Isaiah 24:16 26:15 41:8-9 49:6), to be the richest (Genesis 27:28 49:25 Deuteronomy 33:13-16 Hosea 2:8), and most powerful (Numbers 24:8-7 Micah 5:7-9) nations on earth and to control major international strategic bases (Genesis 22:16-17 24:60). All of these points together with numerous others show that descendants of the Lost Ten Tribes can only be found amongst Western Nations especially the English-speaking ones. The correctness of our interpretation of the relevant verses, and your destiny, may depend upon this information. You need to know!!

4. DNA Findings: The USA is Different?
A new DNA study
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/211979.pdf
and the Discussion around it has tentatively led to the following
suggestions:
a. DNA mutations occur at a faster rate in North America than in Europe?
b. A type of DNA considered especially typical of people of Sephardic Jewish descent is characterized by a haplotype that is extra frequent in North America:

"The most common European haplotype, 14-(11,14)-13-16-24-11-13-13, is found in 3.1% of 9,972 individuals in the Y-STR HRDatabase.
This haplotype was found at 5.4% in the European-American sample."

Such reports are of interest. No need to jump to any conclusions just worth taking note of.

5. More Chapters Uploaded to Daniel

Daniel Chapter One:
Insistence on Eating Garden Greens.

Daniel Chapter Two:
The Great and Awesome Statue and its Prophetic Significance.

"Eurabia" in the Book of Daniel:
How Classical Commentaries Understood that an eventual union between
Ishmael (Islam) and Europe would take place.

Daniel Chapter Three:
The Three Companions in the Fiery Furnace

Daniel Chapter Four:
Nebuchadnezzar Becomes Like a Wild Beast!

Daniel Chapter Five:
The Writing on the Wall!

Daniel Chapter Six:
Daniel in the Lions Den